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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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[Music]

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hey guys ryan sprague here from

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somewhere in the skies and i am really

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excited about this interview it has been

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a long time coming and he should have

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been on the show

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so many times by now but we have a very

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good reason tonight he just came out

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with a brand new book that we're going

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to talk about and that's canada's ufos

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declassified and we have the author and

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preeminent canadian ufo researcher chris

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rakowski is with us today so let's not

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waste any more time we're going to talk

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about the book we're going to talk about

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a very interesting story out of canada

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with the uh with the defense minister

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and chris connection to that as well so

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without further ado chris welcome to

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somewhere in the skies

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thanks glad to be here it's my pleasure

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man like i said this has been a long

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time coming well hey let's not really

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you know waste any time this big story i

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want to talk to you about out of canada

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you have the canadian defense minister

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who actually was briefed on ufos and

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correct me if i'm wrong this was prior

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to the u.s

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intel report that came out as well but

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you were kind of at the forefront of

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this you were a big part of this story

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um would you mind telling our audience a

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little about what this story was and uh

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your involvement with it

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well sure um as many of your listeners

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may not know but i've been involved in

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ufology

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for a number of years now back i started

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in the 70s so yes i'm really really old

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and um

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along the way i became involved with

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getting material from the uh

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the various government departments in

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canada that we're

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receiving and responsible for looking

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into ufos

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and um back in 2021

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i had been contacted by the canadian

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department of national defense

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for information regarding

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what types of materials should the

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minister of national defense be told

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about regarding the history of ufos in

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canada and what's currently being done

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and since i've been doing this for a

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while and uh i've actually been in

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correspondence with uh

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with military and

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other aviation people in canada for

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quite a number of years now

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they look to me for assistance

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and you know doing my civic duty of

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course

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i came up with a series of things to

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provide to the minister of national

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defense so to put this in perspective

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just imagine if the secretary of defense

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in the united states

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was going to be briefed on the subject

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of uap that's the equivalent up here in

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canada for what happened

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so

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i provided the information and that was

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actually the last i heard of it i wasn't

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part of the actual briefing

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i wasn't told when it was going to occur

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simply that i provided information

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and then

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this year

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some diligent

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doc uh

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discoverers here in canada been filing

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various access information requests in

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canada they're not freedom of

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information requests their access

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information request a little bit

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different they have some different

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connotations but the same idea yes the

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government give me everything you have

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and

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one person came up with they had heard

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that there was a briefing somehow

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and he asked for the briefing

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and what happened was that they the

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the government didn't release the

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briefing itself but released some slides

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some power points uh that were part of

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the briefing and a little bit of

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information when it occurred and so

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forth

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and in this in these slides uh the

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canadian government and and defense

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described what was going on in canada

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over the years sort of the history going

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back uh in into the 50s up to the 60s

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70s 80s and and modern times

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and noting that a fellow named chris

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rakowski

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was in fact uh receiving

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ufo reports from the ministry of

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national defense and transport canada

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the equivalent of the faa

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and that

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i know that was the current status at

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that time and what's interesting is

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that my photo is actually on one of

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these slides

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so uh the military including the

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minister of national defense knows what

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i look like

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which is kind of interesting but there

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was a there was a the briefing itself

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and some discussion that ensued after it

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uh that we don't have any for any

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information exactly what occurred but i

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imagine people are trying to track that

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down as well

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really interesting again kind of putting

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it into perspective like you said i'm

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trying to imagine like what would happen

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if i got like an email that day being

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like yeah we need you to brief you know

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whoever the current defense minister

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director is here in the united states so

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i mean what does that look like like did

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it was it just like a random email you

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got from a government-issued email

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address or were these individuals that

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you've been in contact with throughout

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the years because i know a lot of the

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files on ufos throughout the decades

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have gone directly to you you are the

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go-to guy in your entire country which

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still astounds me um yeah what is it

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what does that look like

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yeah as a matter of fact it was one of

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the people who uh

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uh

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in one of the the military offices who

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had contacted me

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and uh

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somebody was actually posted with the uh

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with the minister's office uh himself

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and

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you know i i i you know very often i am

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getting requests from a military

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uh do i have this information or they're

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sending me a case or something like that

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but once in a while they'll send me

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something like you know we have a

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request asking about this particular

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case

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and it mentions you in the official

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document do you mind if we release your

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name i said no that's you know that's

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fine so i have been in contact with this

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particular this person who had contacted

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me and i didn't have a problem with it

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because you know i've been doing this

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and uh again it's it's the type of thing

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that

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uh

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suppose but the idea is that you know i

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think this is important information and

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the reason that i've been actually

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presenting some of these cases and it's

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it's uh

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you know i would get a a case

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uh typically from uh

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the part of a national defense about a

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pilot who had seen something

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i review it and take a look at it and

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very often i've been posting this on my

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blog or on facebook or presenting it at

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some conferences or seminars or

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workshops so it's not the type of thing

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that that is

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completely classified

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there's a few things as in my my book

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that do get declassified eventually from

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a higher level and i can talk about

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those but you know by and large these

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are things that are generally

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unclassified what's curious is that

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transport canada which is the canadian

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equivalent of the faa

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routinely

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makes available to the public anyone who

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wants

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information about ufos that pilots are

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seeing and in canada they're still

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actually called ufos um the the

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abbreviation uap is not used by canada

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at least in transport canada

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um and over the past 20 years or so a

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number of people have filed these

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requests and i've been getting these

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requests directly but there's something

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like 500

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cases where

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transport canada has received

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sightings from pilots and air traffic

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controllers and so forth directly to

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their office and we know all about them

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and we have details and in some cases

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there are additional uh documents to

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support some of them

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so you know in canada you know we might

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be considered a little more transparent

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than the united states

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i often say that you know ever since

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blue book ended

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back in 1969 and early 1970

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you know we really haven't had any

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information about what the united states

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government has been doing with regard to

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uh ufos or now uap up until when we

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found out about this this project that

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ran from 2007 to 2012 but that that gap

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you know is still there that we don't

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know a lot about although people like

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paul dean and

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jan aldrich and others have been working

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very diligently to to fill in some of

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that

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whereas in canada uh the canadian

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government has a record of investigating

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uh and

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studying the ufo reports and

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interviewing witnesses right from the

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40s up until the present and we have

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many of those cases i have

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literally hundreds and hundreds of these

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cases

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that we've looked at and i've been

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publishing details of some of them in my

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annual canadian ufo survey

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so you know we we do have a little more

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going in that sense and and yet it's in

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response to

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um the

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uap task force um and the attention that

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uh uh that's going on with regard to

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congressional hearings and so forth

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and testimony now as a result of the

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nimitz uh

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tic tacs and things like that that the

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canadian

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politicians are getting a little more

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interested uh

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it seemed that the politicians

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themselves in canada were a little

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hands-off until recently and now they're

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really starting to get more involved

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right and again that's what excites me

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most no matter what everyone thinks

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about if progress is being made with the

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overall ufo conversation in terms of um

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you know here in america with the

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pentagon and the hearings and everything

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uh you know you could argue that for

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sure that this actually might hinder the

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transparency that could occur but um i i

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do

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think it's it's good

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that now canada is sort of following

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suit and also brazil is going to be

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having their own congressional hearings

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later this month where i know

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uh people like robert salas a gentleman

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00:10:40,069 --> 00:10:37,600
involved with a nuclear

285
00:10:41,590 --> 00:10:40,079
ufo case here in the states ufo scene

286
00:10:44,069 --> 00:10:41,600
over a nuclear installation that he

287
00:10:46,310 --> 00:10:44,079
witnessed uh will be testifying at the

288
00:10:48,949 --> 00:10:46,320
brazilian congressional hearing along

289
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:48,959
with luis elizondo and and other

290
00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:51,760
individuals as well so yeah it you know

291
00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:54,240
it can't hurt i guess that's the best

292
00:10:58,389 --> 00:10:56,320
way i can put it um

293
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:58,399
we'll see you know only time will tell

294
00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:00,399
what what we'll actually get out of all

295
00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:02,240
of this when it comes to government in

296
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:04,959
ufos but um it's pretty interesting

297
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:07,040
pretty interesting in my opinion yeah

298
00:11:10,630 --> 00:11:08,640
and i actually giving a presentation at

299
00:11:12,870 --> 00:11:10,640
the brazilian ufo conference uh that's

300
00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:12,880
coming up in a few weeks too really i

301
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:15,440
did not know that wow yeah

302
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:18,079
yeah um and so there's you know a lot of

303
00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:20,000
involvement and a lot of interest in the

304
00:11:22,949 --> 00:11:20,959
subject

305
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:22,959
and uh and even though the canadian

306
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:24,720
politicians may have been a little slow

307
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:27,200
to act in response to what's going on in

308
00:11:31,829 --> 00:11:28,480
the states

309
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:31,839
i mean canada canadian politicians have

310
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:32,959
um

311
00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:35,200
been presented with information and have

312
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:36,880
requested information

313
00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:40,000
ufos have been mentioned in the canadian

314
00:11:44,069 --> 00:11:42,240
parliament dozens of times i don't know

315
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:44,079
how many times ufo's been mentioned in

316
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:47,040
congress itself on the floor but in

317
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:49,440
canada it's it's happened quite a bit

318
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:52,399
and uh there actually has been a a

319
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:54,639
previous uh briefing to the canadian

320
00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:57,279
senate and i've been contacted by some

321
00:12:01,269 --> 00:11:59,120
of the politicians sitting members of

322
00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:01,279
parliament and a member of the canadian

323
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:03,519
senate because you know they're

324
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:06,160
this is something that is worth studying

325
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:07,600
you know and

326
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:09,440
i make that the case not necessarily

327
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:11,920
with regard to aliens but in regard to

328
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:14,160
safety and defense and and uh you know

329
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:15,440
that's the approach from the united

330
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:16,959
states as well

331
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:19,040
absolutely right and you know i think

332
00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:20,800
that kind of brings us

333
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:22,560
up to current day with this book that

334
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:24,399
you just released

335
00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:27,839
again canada's ufos declassified so um

336
00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:29,600
i'd love to start chris with the origin

337
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:33,040
story of the book um now i'd love to

338
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:36,720
know how did you obtain all of these uh

339
00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:38,480
again i know that people have reached

340
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:40,000
out to you and you have reached out to

341
00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:42,320
individuals within the government and uh

342
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:44,880
your book is just jam-packed with

343
00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:47,519
declassified files from all different

344
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:49,440
organizations and institutions and

345
00:12:52,949 --> 00:12:51,519
whatnot and the one i think that really

346
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:52,959
caught my attention and maybe it's

347
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:55,600
because i'm an american and i'm very

348
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:58,560
familiar with project blue book um we

349
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,000
had here in the states something known

350
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:02,399
as the robertson panel um which was a

351
00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:04,240
very controversial thing during the blue

352
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:06,320
book days and now i'm learning that

353
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:07,839
there was something in canada called the

354
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,959
robertson briefing which really confused

355
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:12,240
the heck out of me i'm like are these

356
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:14,160
things connected what's going on here

357
00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:16,959
until i read your book and finally um

358
00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:20,480
realized exactly what this was how

359
00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:21,519
um

360
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:24,160
i guess grand it really was and uh how

361
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:27,839
important it was in shaping kind of a a

362
00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:30,720
large portion of your book so um yeah

363
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:32,079
would you mind giving us the origin

364
00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:34,399
story of how the book came to be and

365
00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:36,480
what this robertson briefing is this

366
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:38,560
really intrigues me

367
00:13:41,829 --> 00:13:39,680
well sure

368
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:41,839
the background is that um you know the

369
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:43,920
canadian government has

370
00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:46,320
been involved in investigating and

371
00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:49,519
researching a of ufos

372
00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:52,160
for many decades uh in the 40s and into

373
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:54,560
the 50s it was the responsibility of the

374
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:56,720
royal canadian air force

375
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:00,240
in about the mid 1960s

376
00:14:05,829 --> 00:14:02,880
because largely because of blue book and

377
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:05,839
grudge and and uh uh some of the

378
00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:06,880
american

379
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:09,199
uh comments that were going on the

380
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,120
military in canada also wanted to get

381
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:13,440
out of the ufo business uh they didn't

382
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:14,959
think it was a defense problem you hear

383
00:14:19,350 --> 00:14:17,519
that comment all the time they wanted it

384
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:19,360
to be passed off somewhere but they

385
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:21,279
still wanted to have sort of a

386
00:14:25,509 --> 00:14:23,920
an arm's length association with it so

387
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:25,519
what happened was that the

388
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,000
national research council of canada

389
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,000
which i guess the closest equivalent

390
00:14:33,269 --> 00:14:32,160
would be the smithsonian

391
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:33,279
um

392
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:35,839
was given responsibility to receive and

393
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:39,760
investigate ufo reports in canada

394
00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:42,480
and um the problem was that they're

395
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:45,440
based in uh ottawa in the you know in

396
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:47,120
the government uh center

397
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:48,720
so they needed a way of getting it

398
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:50,560
reports from all across the entire

399
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:51,680
country

400
00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:54,000
and what they had was a very ready-made

401
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:56,800
system the royal canadian mounted police

402
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,760
has

403
00:15:01,910 --> 00:14:59,920
detachments and offices right across the

404
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:01,920
country and many many major and smaller

405
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:03,920
cities and towns

406
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:06,800
and so they enlisted the the police to

407
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:09,680
investigate ufo reports from the public

408
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,079
and from pilots and military personnel

409
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:13,920
and send them into the national research

410
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:15,839
council who would then take part in some

411
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,839
investigations so that took place

412
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:19,920
starting in about the 1960s that

413
00:15:25,829 --> 00:15:21,440
remained in place

414
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:25,839
until about the 19 mid 1990s

415
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:28,240
and after that we started getting into

416
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,360
transport canada and some of the uh

417
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:33,120
my involvement a little more directly in

418
00:15:37,350 --> 00:15:35,600
getting cases from national defense

419
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:37,360
but during that time when the national

420
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:39,680
research council was investigating

421
00:15:43,110 --> 00:15:42,000
they compiled many many hundreds of

422
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:43,120
documents

423
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:45,360
in fact uh at one count there was

424
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,040
something like nine or ten thousand

425
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:50,480
separate documents about ufos

426
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:52,160
and um

427
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:54,959
in a little after the year 2000 maybe

428
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:58,560
about 2003 2005 into the 2008

429
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:59,440
um

430
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:01,759
uh the records for the national research

431
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:03,440
council of canada

432
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:05,600
every year were transferred to the

433
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:08,800
national archives of canada so uh ufo

434
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,360
reports for all of 1972

435
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:13,600
at the end of 1972 for example went to

436
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:14,560
the

437
00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:19,279
and

438
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:21,279
the archives is open to the public a

439
00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:23,040
canadian citizen can walk into the

440
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:25,279
archives and do research and

441
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,000
i'd like to have people negotiate and

442
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:30,399
visited i just have to get your official

443
00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:34,079
card uh and uh um you know cass allowed

444
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:37,040
you to get access to a lot of the files

445
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:38,800
and so i got access to a lot of the

446
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:41,600
paper copies of the ufo files

447
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:43,759
and then

448
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:46,160
because there is so much interest in the

449
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:47,279
subject

450
00:16:52,629 --> 00:16:49,360
in the mid-2000s

451
00:16:55,590 --> 00:16:52,639
libraries and archives canada digitized

452
00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:55,600
nine or ten thousand separate documents

453
00:17:00,310 --> 00:16:58,240
from various agencies the air force and

454
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:00,320
uh national defense and transport and so

455
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:02,959
forth and made them available online so

456
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:04,720
a lot of people in canada

457
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:06,000
grabbed them

458
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:09,439
and downloaded them i i think uh

459
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:12,160
the archives for ufos and uh in

460
00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:14,319
scandinavia as i copy

461
00:17:17,909 --> 00:17:16,240
isaac coy as a copy and i think a lot of

462
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:17,919
other people have copies but there's so

463
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:19,600
much material in there it's hard to sort

464
00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:20,319
out

465
00:17:24,870 --> 00:17:21,280
so

466
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:24,880
largely on the national research council

467
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:26,959
files i delved into

468
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:28,319
what was there and i went through each

469
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,080
document trying to find some of the more

470
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:32,400
interesting cases and some evidence of

471
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:34,240
what really was going on in the canadian

472
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:37,440
government now i have to say that

473
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:39,360
there's a phd thesis

474
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:41,120
by a fellow named matthew hayes which

475
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,480
just came out a few months ago in canada

476
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:46,240
looking at what the canadian government

477
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:48,400
really thought about ufos

478
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:50,240
um and it wasn't very positive but it's

479
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:52,960
a it's an incredible detailed doctoral

480
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:54,000
thesis

481
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:57,039
um and uh you know it is you know it's

482
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:58,799
uh um

483
00:18:03,029 --> 00:18:00,720
you know one of those uh things that a

484
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:03,039
good ufologist might get you know as a

485
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:04,240
as a backup

486
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:06,720
but in terms of the actual cases because

487
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:08,480
he was looking at the the letters to and

488
00:18:12,789 --> 00:18:10,640
from various agencies he didn't look too

489
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:12,799
much into the cases themselves i want to

490
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:14,559
know are there any interesting cases in

491
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:16,480
there that that should have been looked

492
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:18,400
into a little bit more and what happened

493
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:21,039
to some of the investigations

494
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:22,880
so i went through every document and i

495
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,640
found some real gems in there and one of

496
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:26,640
them was this thing called the robertson

497
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:33,110
when um

498
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,600
the minister of national defense was was

499
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:38,160
uh leaving his office and a new one was

500
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:40,240
was coming in the one that was leaving

501
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:42,080
by the way was paul hellyer who a lot of

502
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:44,559
ufo types will know

503
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:45,679
by name

504
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:49,039
the new one was called leo cadu

505
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:51,360
and he needed to be brief now this

506
00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:54,080
echoes directly what was going on just

507
00:18:59,350 --> 00:18:56,880
uh just last year of course

508
00:19:01,909 --> 00:18:59,360
and what's curious is we we don't have

509
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:01,919
the slides from this from that briefing

510
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:04,640
from 1967 but we have the briefing

511
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:06,240
itself

512
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:10,160
and it's amazing it's 28 pages long and

513
00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:13,200
it lays out the policy of national

514
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:16,000
defense and what to do about ufos it

515
00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:17,760
describes what's going on in the states

516
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:19,080
it describes

517
00:19:21,350 --> 00:19:20,240
[Music]

518
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:21,360
some of

519
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:24,240
the procedures and the analyses and it

520
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:26,160
has a section in which

521
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:29,600
they list six cases that can't be

522
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:31,760
explained in fact uh there's actually a

523
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:34,559
statement in uh this briefing

524
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,960
where national defense and uh the

525
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:38,880
orokini and mounted police both say that

526
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:42,160
some of these cases cannot be explained

527
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:44,720
and these were the top six cases out of

528
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:47,679
many hundreds that had been received

529
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:49,360
and

530
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:52,240
it's such a very important document that

531
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:54,799
in the book i insisted that we that the

532
00:19:58,630 --> 00:19:57,200
publisher actually reproduce all 28

533
00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:58,640
pages yeah

534
00:20:02,230 --> 00:20:00,320
of this document so you can see for

535
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,240
yourself which are the most interesting

536
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:04,320
cases and and the ones that the canadian

537
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:08,000
government itself couldn't explain

538
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:10,240
very interesting yeah it's like sort of

539
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:11,280
to me

540
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:13,919
echoing either project blue book with

541
00:20:19,549 --> 00:20:17,360
some 700 cases that remain unexplained

542
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:19,559
or even more currently you know these

543
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:22,960
144 cases that the us pentagon and

544
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:27,039
defense agency looked at um 144 and they

545
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:29,280
were able to explain one you know so

546
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:31,840
it's very telling in six hey that's a

547
00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:34,400
lot when it comes to national defense

548
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:36,960
um that's a lot of cases that remain

549
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:38,880
unsolved and could be a potential threat

550
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:41,360
in some way shape or form uh

551
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:42,799
although yeah

552
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:46,080
although i'll quibble with the 144 okay

553
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:47,520
in that if you actually read what's in

554
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:49,120
the task force it doesn't say that those

555
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:51,200
ones couldn't be explained what it says

556
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:53,360
if you really look at the the paragraph

557
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:54,799
a little bit below there it says these

558
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,840
are the ones

559
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:57,600
um that

560
00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:59,360
for the most part didn't have enough

561
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:01,600
information in order to explain them in

562
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:03,760
other words they had a uh an idea

563
00:21:06,789 --> 00:21:05,200
perhaps that they were a balloon or a

564
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,799
plane or something but didn't couldn't

565
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:08,799
uh identify exactly which plane or

566
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:10,720
balloon or whatever except for the one

567
00:21:15,669 --> 00:21:13,440
that was a deflating balloon right um

568
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:15,679
and that's different because in the

569
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:17,600
robertson briefing in canada they

570
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:19,679
actually talk about how many cases had

571
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:21,760
actually been received and which ones

572
00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:24,000
fell into the interesting

573
00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:26,080
uh and don't seem to have an explanation

574
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,520
but we don't have enough

575
00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:29,520
information to say for sure

576
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:31,360
and so that's that's the equivalent

577
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:34,080
there uh so there certainly were many

578
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:36,559
more cases in canada noted in the

579
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:38,400
robertson briefing that were of the

580
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:40,559
quality of what was noted in the uap

581
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:41,760
task force

582
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:44,799
but uh uh there were only those six that

583
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,480
they said we really don't know which

584
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:47,919
ones those are

585
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:49,840
gotcha that thank you for clearing that

586
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:52,320
up that actually makes a lot more sense

587
00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:54,480
now that i think about it um well you

588
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:57,280
know in that comparison chris um those

589
00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:58,559
six cases

590
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:01,600
what for you were some of the most uh

591
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:03,760
intriguing or telling cases that really

592
00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:04,960
made you think

593
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,360
that this yeah this is one that really

594
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:09,679
needs to get out there and um we should

595
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:11,360
probably find the answers to any really

596
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,360
stick out in your mind

597
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:15,360
well there's two that might be familiar

598
00:22:18,310 --> 00:22:17,360
to some of your

599
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:18,320
viewers

600
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:20,640
one is the falcon lake case uh which

601
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:22,960
happened in 1967 and shag harbor which

602
00:22:29,110 --> 00:22:25,520
also happened in 1967.

603
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:29,120
um very briefly falcon lake was

604
00:22:33,909 --> 00:22:31,039
where a fellow was a bit of a rock hound

605
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:33,919
he's described as an amateur prospector

606
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:37,120
um was in this area in manitoba uh very

607
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:38,799
rocky very rugged

608
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:42,240
um he was chipping away at a rock stop

609
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:44,240
for lunch in the middle of the day and

610
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:46,240
he saw what can only be described as

611
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:48,960
hollywood style flying saucers descend

612
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:52,159
one landed on a a rock flat rock

613
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:56,480
outcropping 150 away 150 feet away or so

614
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:59,520
um it was domed disc shaped uh lights

615
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:02,159
coming from it uh had a little door

616
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:04,480
um that opened on one side from which

617
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:06,240
more light came out

618
00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:07,760
and then there was sort of an exhaust

619
00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:11,280
vent like a grill or something uh off to

620
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:12,559
one side

621
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:15,120
and he at first um

622
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:16,960
didn't think it was anything from outer

623
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:19,280
space he thought it was some sort of uh

624
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,400
american

625
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:22,559
uh secret landing vehicle in fact this

626
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:24,640
was just about the time when the apollo

627
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:26,960
program was starting up uh the tragic

628
00:23:32,470 --> 00:23:30,400
apollo 1 had just occurred

629
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:32,480
and um

630
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:33,919
there was this possibility of landing on

631
00:23:36,789 --> 00:23:35,039
the moon so we thought maybe this was

632
00:23:38,549 --> 00:23:36,799
something for the americans that you

633
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,559
know went astray or are they flying it

634
00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:40,799
over canada and it broke down so because

635
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:42,799
he thought it was an american device he

636
00:23:45,350 --> 00:23:44,080
walked up to

637
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:45,360
uh

638
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:47,600
this after a while because he heard some

639
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:49,840
voices coming from inside from through

640
00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:51,760
this doorway thinking he was an american

641
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:53,600
uh ship

642
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,840
and he called out hey you know yankee

643
00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:57,360
boys i'll give you a hand fixing your

644
00:24:01,750 --> 00:23:59,600
broken down flying machine

645
00:24:03,909 --> 00:24:01,760
and the voices stopped and he thought oh

646
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:03,919
it's not american it's russian so he

647
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:05,679
called out because it happened to be to

648
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:07,520
be a bit of a polyglot he had been in

649
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:08,960
the military as well

650
00:24:13,269 --> 00:24:11,440
uh in in a couple of other languages

651
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:13,279
nothing but by this time he was standing

652
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:15,200
in front of it he touched the side of it

653
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:17,360
when he bent to look in the this little

654
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:20,720
doorway his gloved hand which was uh

655
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:23,600
covered in a rubberized glove

656
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:27,039
it melted um this door shut the

657
00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:29,039
entire thing rotated so there's this

658
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:31,279
exhaust vent right in front of him out

659
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,679
comes a blast of hot gas setting his

660
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:35,200
clothes on fire setting fire to the

661
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:37,120
leaves and pine needles around him the

662
00:24:39,669 --> 00:24:38,400
thing took so

663
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:39,679
took off

664
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:40,559
um

665
00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:46,880
tries to stamp out the little fire

666
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:48,640
that's smoldering

667
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:50,880
and he manages to get back to

668
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:52,640
civilization

669
00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:54,960
uh and he went to emergency at the

670
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:57,520
hospital where he was treated for burns

671
00:25:02,070 --> 00:24:58,400
and

672
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:02,080
the royal canadian air force both

673
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:03,520
investigated

674
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,640
and they found the site uh where

675
00:25:11,269 --> 00:25:08,559
something had been you know there that

676
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:11,279
were burned uh pine needles and leaves

677
00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:12,799
in a circle

678
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,440
also there is radioactive material found

679
00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:17,120
at the site as well

680
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:20,559
and all of this is documented

681
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:22,799
in these files

682
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:23,919
and

683
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:26,880
there's the interrogation of the witness

684
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:30,159
his family uh the the people who ran the

685
00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:31,919
hotel uh

686
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:33,760
where he had stayed overnight uh the

687
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:36,480
bartender like in everybody uh people

688
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:39,360
followed his kids home from school

689
00:25:43,669 --> 00:25:41,200
they talked to his place of work there

690
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:43,679
was an analysis of the radioactive

691
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:46,080
material found at the site and then in

692
00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:47,200
addition

693
00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:49,200
a year later he went back to the site

694
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:50,720
and dug a little bit further into the

695
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:53,279
rock through some cracks and he found

696
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:54,960
radioactive

697
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:57,600
metal that appeared to have been melted

698
00:26:01,350 --> 00:26:00,000
and melted into these cracks

699
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:01,360
and

700
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:04,080
that material was also tested not only

701
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:07,520
by canadian laboratories but also

702
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:09,760
i think the university of illinois took

703
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:11,760
a crack at it i think it was sent down

704
00:26:15,669 --> 00:26:14,080
to april the lorenzen's had

705
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:15,679
some analysis done

706
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:17,520
you know we have the the actual

707
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,840
metallurgical analysis of this

708
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:22,320
uh the the fact that was radioactive

709
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:24,720
plus we have the

710
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:27,200
uh the medical records he went to the

711
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:29,120
mayo clinic we have the mayo clinic

712
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:31,600
records this is probably one of the best

713
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:34,799
documented cases in all of ufology the

714
00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:36,320
only thing prob the only problem with it

715
00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:37,760
is a single witness case that yet we

716
00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:39,760
have so much physical evidence throw

717
00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:41,679
that out the window

718
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:44,000
and the the government says it doesn't

719
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:44,799
know

720
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:47,520
what happened it cannot cannot explain

721
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:50,320
it that's just one of the cases of the

722
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:51,840
six that they thought were was pretty

723
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:53,919
profound and it gives you an idea of the

724
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:55,360
quality of some of the cases that are in

725
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:56,559
these files

726
00:27:02,950 --> 00:26:59,919
right yeah again quality over quantity i

727
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:02,960
think is the key thing here um and we

728
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:04,720
should mention that book right behind

729
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:08,720
you you co-wrote with uh was it his son

730
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:11,520
uh the witness was that yeah okay

731
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:13,919
yeah when they appeared wonderful i

732
00:27:18,149 --> 00:27:16,080
highly suggest people check it out

733
00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:18,159
yeah just a handful of years ago i

734
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:19,919
co-wrote the book with this witness's

735
00:27:23,669 --> 00:27:21,919
son when they appeared

736
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:23,679
the title has nothing to do with aliens

737
00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:25,520
but it has to do with the fact that

738
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:28,080
military people showed up on the this

739
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:31,200
family's doorstep uh spent many days and

740
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:32,159
nights

741
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:32,960
uh

742
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:37,760
quite an ordeal for the family it's an

743
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,840
in-depth study of what happens to a

744
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:41,840
witness of a ufo

745
00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:43,440
yep and again that's what we're all

746
00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:44,960
about here at somewhere in the skies

747
00:27:50,389 --> 00:27:48,080
it's kind of that human humanistic uh

748
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:50,399
lens in which to look at these phenomena

749
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:52,080
and how it impacts people's lives but

750
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:54,080
not just the witness their family you

751
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:55,520
know like you said the children were

752
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:58,240
very traumatized by all the attention

753
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:00,960
the father got about this and you know

754
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:03,200
all these government people hounding

755
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:05,919
them and and news reporters skeptics

756
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:08,240
believers everything in between um it

757
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:10,960
does take a toll on on people's lives

758
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:12,880
even if they weren't directly involved

759
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:15,120
so yeah again that's what i love about

760
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:17,120
that case and it was really cool to know

761
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,399
that some of these declassified

762
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:20,559
documents were pertaining to the falcon

763
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,559
lake incident which i in the united

764
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:24,480
states feel doesn't get the recognition

765
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:27,919
it truly deserves uh it should be more

766
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:30,480
well-known than a lot of american ufo

767
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:32,320
cases but yeah

768
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:34,799
such as the way the media works

769
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:36,000
as a matter of fact the site is

770
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:39,279
accessible and um it's not quite at the

771
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:41,600
level of roswell but uh the town

772
00:28:46,389 --> 00:28:44,799
actually sells t-shirts and mugs and all

773
00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:46,399
that sort of stuff they're working on a

774
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:48,720
marker and that type of thing and it's

775
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:50,799
curious also that it's in an isolated

776
00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:52,000
area i mean

777
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:54,799
uh it's hard to get to in fact i'm going

778
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:56,480
out there next week

779
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,520
um with a a tour group

780
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:01,360
and the only way in that's really

781
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:03,919
practical is to go in by horseback and

782
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:06,559
it's a 45 minute horse ride horseback

783
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:08,960
ride in and a 45

784
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:10,960
minute horseback ride out over some

785
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:13,440
pretty rugged terrain this isn't ponies

786
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:16,159
following one another this is this is uh

787
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,399
cl horses climbing rock cliffs and

788
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:20,320
things like that so it's wow it's quite

789
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:21,840
a challenge

790
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:24,399
i love that boots on the ground if i've

791
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:31,590
hey guys ryan here the summer in the

792
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:34,880
skies podcast is a labor of love every

793
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,039
week and with that comes many different

794
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:39,520
costs to keep the show running that's

795
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:42,159
where our patreon campaign comes in you

796
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:44,320
give what you think the show is worth

797
00:29:48,549 --> 00:29:46,640
there's different rewards available all

798
00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:48,559
the time including shout outs on the

799
00:29:53,909 --> 00:29:51,120
show early editions of main episodes

800
00:29:56,470 --> 00:29:53,919
bonus episodes and content and very soon

801
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:56,480
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802
00:30:01,510 --> 00:29:59,760
back and chat all things ufos so i hope

803
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:01,520
you'll consider becoming a patreon

804
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:04,080
subscriber today to learn more and to

805
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:07,840
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806
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:10,320
skies thank you for your support and

807
00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:20,470
well i mean falcon lake that's one thing

808
00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:22,240
but another case that caught my

809
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,159
attention in the book was something that

810
00:30:28,870 --> 00:30:26,399
happened at clan lake

811
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:28,880
not an area i'm familiar with and we're

812
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:31,679
talking again physical evidence trace

813
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:34,720
evidence left behind by these ufo events

814
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:37,440
and were documented in some way shape or

815
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:39,679
form by official

816
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:42,640
uh investigators and and and documents

817
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:45,120
were created so um yeah would you mind

818
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:46,720
maybe briefly running us through the

819
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:48,720
clan lake incident and why you thought

820
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:49,600
it was

821
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:52,320
integral to including in the book

822
00:30:56,230 --> 00:30:54,240
sure clan lake is in the northwest

823
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:56,240
territories of canada so it's uh it's

824
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:58,559
quite a bit far north

825
00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:02,159
again and in particularly a very very

826
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:06,000
isolated area fly-in only and as a

827
00:31:10,070 --> 00:31:08,080
matter of fact this was 1960 so you're

828
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:10,080
going back a few years but

829
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:11,840
but bear with me here

830
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:12,720
that

831
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:15,039
a hunter had been dropped off by a float

832
00:31:18,549 --> 00:31:16,799
plane and they were going to leave him

833
00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:18,559
there for a week or two and then come

834
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:20,480
back and get him so he had us all his

835
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:22,640
provisions the plane had just left and

836
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:26,559
as he is working on his his camp

837
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:28,880
um he hears a loud

838
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:30,399
rumbling noise and he thought another

839
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:32,159
float plane is coming by he looks up

840
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:33,760
can't see anything

841
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:36,320
uh turns his back to the lake

842
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:37,679
to the lake because he's working on his

843
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:38,480
camp

844
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:40,880
and he hears something whistling coming

845
00:31:45,110 --> 00:31:44,240
down behind him he turns just in time to

846
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,120
see

847
00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:47,600
something metallic with spikes

848
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:49,279
spinning and spinning and spinning

849
00:31:54,789 --> 00:31:52,000
descending onto the lake and as it hits

850
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:54,799
the lake it splashes and throws water in

851
00:31:59,909 --> 00:31:57,679
all directions and slowly spins slower

852
00:32:02,310 --> 00:31:59,919
and slower and goes below the surface of

853
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,509
so he uh boats over to where this hap

854
00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:07,279
where he saw this

855
00:32:12,149 --> 00:32:10,720
and uh in you could see that the reeds

856
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:12,159
in the marshy area at the side of the

857
00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:13,840
lake had been torn out and there seems

858
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:17,279
to be a big muddy gouge under the water

859
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:19,840
uh and he took one of his uh his paddles

860
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:21,760
and was poking the the bottom to see if

861
00:32:25,269 --> 00:32:23,519
he could touch anything but couldn't

862
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:25,279
touch anything

863
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:26,880
and there was nothing else he could do

864
00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:30,960
so he kind of went back to hunting

865
00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:31,840
and

866
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:35,760
civilization he went to the royal

867
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:37,679
canadian mounted police office

868
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:39,840
explained what had happened and the

869
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:41,679
mounties thought oh maybe a plane went

870
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:43,760
down or you know a chunk of a plane or

871
00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:47,039
something so they flew back with him and

872
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:49,200
they probed with some long poles again

873
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:51,519
they couldn't find anything

874
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:53,760
um but they informed the national

875
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:56,399
research council about this as well

876
00:33:00,149 --> 00:32:57,760
and the national research council

877
00:33:01,669 --> 00:33:00,159
thought maybe it was a meteorite

878
00:33:03,590 --> 00:33:01,679
that you know

879
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:03,600
very bright and

880
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:06,080
had fallen and maybe it was spinning

881
00:33:09,909 --> 00:33:08,080
when it came in

882
00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:09,919
but there is some discussion about what

883
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:11,760
to do by this time it was starting to be

884
00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:14,159
fall and the lake was going to freeze

885
00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:16,000
they left into the spring

886
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:17,440
in the spring they were trying to get a

887
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:19,200
scientist out with a

888
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:20,960
magnetic field detector to see if they

889
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:23,039
could spot it and this went on actually

890
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:25,039
for many many months eventually they

891
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:27,200
said you know what let's just leave it

892
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:29,440
let's just forget all about it

893
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:31,120
which i thought was kind of curious

894
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:34,240
because number one if it's a meteor or

895
00:33:38,310 --> 00:33:36,720
meteorite that large you'd think that

896
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:38,320
science would be all over this thing

897
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:39,600
right you'd think that this would be

898
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:40,880
invaluable

899
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:43,360
okay maybe it was a satellite a chunk of

900
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:44,799
a satellite

901
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:47,840
well if it wasn't our satellite it was

902
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:49,600
their satellite and you'd think that

903
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:52,240
you'd want to retrieve that too and yet

904
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:53,760
there is no attempt

905
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,960
after uh you know 18 months or so and

906
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:58,640
the whole thing was forgotten and only

907
00:34:02,149 --> 00:34:00,399
found through an examination of some of

908
00:34:04,389 --> 00:34:02,159
these documents so you wonder what was

909
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:04,399
really going on what was found what you

910
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:06,559
know was anything going to be found

911
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:08,960
uh what was this because

912
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:12,240
there actually is kind of a a sequel to

913
00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:13,280
this

914
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:16,639
um in that i'm in the 1980s

915
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:19,440
a russian satellite crashed in the

916
00:34:24,790 --> 00:34:22,480
northwest territories not all that far

917
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:24,800
away from from this spot

918
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:27,760
it was cosmos 954

919
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:30,320
and it was a fairly large russian

920
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:33,599
satellite that had a nuclear

921
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:36,000
power source on board

922
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:38,159
and when it crashed into a you know

923
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:41,200
thankfully relatively unpopulated area

924
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:44,639
um uh it it you know crashed and split

925
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:47,359
apart into many many pieces

926
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:50,000
but many of the pieces were radioactive

927
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:52,399
so the united states

928
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,399
and canada both went into a joint

929
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:56,159
retrieval operation

930
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:57,119
um

931
00:35:01,829 --> 00:34:58,320
they

932
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:01,839
the largest piece was the size of a

933
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:03,599
refrigerator the smallest was the head

934
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:04,960
of a pin

935
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:05,920
uh the

936
00:35:10,870 --> 00:35:08,400
operation took many many weeks there

937
00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:10,880
were actually some uh some settlements

938
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:12,800
some some people were living in the area

939
00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:14,880
they had to be tested and examined

940
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:16,560
there's some current concern about

941
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,240
environmental effects

942
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:20,880
uh i think there was like a very rare

943
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:22,800
heron or something that that there was

944
00:35:27,829 --> 00:35:25,520
its uh nesting grounds that was affected

945
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:27,839
things like that um and it caused quite

946
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:30,000
a concern it was a huge investigation as

947
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:31,760
a matter of fact russia was handed a

948
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:32,720
bill for

949
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:34,400
uh several hundred thousand dollars

950
00:35:39,190 --> 00:35:37,359
which it never paid but um but it was

951
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:39,200
quite a quite an operation and it was

952
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:40,880
fully documented

953
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:44,000
and this document is available as well

954
00:35:47,589 --> 00:35:46,079
and that's from a satellite and they

955
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:47,599
retrieve things as small as the head of

956
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:48,640
a pin

957
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:51,359
and yet whatever happened in 1960 at

958
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:52,880
clan lake

959
00:35:59,430 --> 00:35:56,480
they gave up on why i don't know

960
00:36:01,270 --> 00:35:59,440
that is very interesting i didn't know

961
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:01,280
about the follow-up so yeah it does

962
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:03,359
truly make you wonder what happened

963
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,400
decades before that wow um that's really

964
00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:07,760
cool really cool and again we have the

965
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:10,240
documents to back this up which is why i

966
00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:12,400
love the book so much um

967
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:13,119
well

968
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:14,720
physical effects chris that's something

969
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:16,720
i want to talk to you about too uh we

970
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,960
just had a story come out here in the

971
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:20,880
states recently that the pentagon did

972
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:23,440
look into physical effects on witnesses

973
00:36:29,109 --> 00:36:26,560
when it comes to seeing ufos or claimed

974
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:29,119
close encounters whether it's um you

975
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:30,960
know some say they were paralyzed by

976
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:35,040
ufos or there was brain damage or uh

977
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:36,800
stuff like that that happened to them

978
00:36:43,349 --> 00:36:40,480
after seeing a ufo um i'm curious did

979
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:43,359
you come across any cases like that um

980
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:46,320
within these files or or just cases in

981
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:47,280
general

982
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:49,920
uh that you know of where people were

983
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:52,960
physically and sometimes dramatically

984
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:55,440
affected by these ufos they were seeing

985
00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:57,839
anything in the files like that

986
00:37:01,430 --> 00:36:59,119
actually there's quite a lot in the

987
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:01,440
files like that apart from the one that

988
00:37:05,190 --> 00:37:02,880
i just mentioned falcon lake where the

989
00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:05,200
fellow was physically burned and he also

990
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:07,440
had some chemical burns uh on his

991
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:08,560
abdomen

992
00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:09,839
i think the thing to note about some of

993
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:11,839
these claimed effects a lot of them came

994
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:12,720
from

995
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:15,119
i think john schussler's potpourri where

996
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:17,440
it was sort of a a collection of stories

997
00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:18,800
that he had heard and none of them were

998
00:37:23,349 --> 00:37:20,800
actually documented and it was included

999
00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:23,359
as a as kind of a note and an appendix

1000
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:25,760
and that made it into a report about uap

1001
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:26,880
so

1002
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:29,200
you know there are cases like that uh

1003
00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:31,440
although this particular report that was

1004
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:33,520
referenced isn't the best source for

1005
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:36,640
that but we do have documents in canada

1006
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:39,119
at least uh that testify to this in

1007
00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:41,119
addition to the falcon lake case

1008
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:43,280
um there were

1009
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:46,480
a case in uh rivers manitoba actually uh

1010
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:49,359
armed forces personnel were involved

1011
00:37:53,589 --> 00:37:51,200
there were eight or nine military

1012
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:53,599
personnel who all reported a a loud

1013
00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:55,440
rumbling noise and a bright light

1014
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:56,720
descended

1015
00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:59,520
there was actually a a soldier who was

1016
00:38:03,750 --> 00:38:01,440
driving with his girlfriend he was off

1017
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:03,760
duty or off hours

1018
00:38:08,470 --> 00:38:06,560
and uh he's driving in in the car with

1019
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,480
his girlfriend and this object came over

1020
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:09,839
his car

1021
00:38:15,589 --> 00:38:11,920
there was a bright intense light and

1022
00:38:17,670 --> 00:38:15,599
this heat that enveloped the entire car

1023
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:17,680
when he got back to the base the car was

1024
00:38:20,870 --> 00:38:19,359
impounded

1025
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:20,880
by the motor pool

1026
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:24,640
uh the the auto body uh officer

1027
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,680
said that

1028
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:27,520
there was some some dust on the car he

1029
00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:29,359
had never been see had seen anything

1030
00:38:34,630 --> 00:38:31,359
like it before there was some bubbling

1031
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:34,640
of the paint uh that was on the on this

1032
00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:36,160
particular car

1033
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:38,320
um and you know there there are quite a

1034
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,160
few interesting cases like that a lot of

1035
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,000
tidbits where people seem to have been

1036
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:44,880
affected uh and felt some effects from

1037
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:47,599
the uh from the uh the case there was a

1038
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:48,720
case in

1039
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:50,800
uh i believe it was nova scotia where

1040
00:38:56,069 --> 00:38:53,280
there was a train uh a train man

1041
00:38:58,230 --> 00:38:56,079
actually on the caboose i believe who uh

1042
00:39:00,550 --> 00:38:58,240
an object swooped over the

1043
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:00,560
uh the train as it was traveling and he

1044
00:39:04,230 --> 00:39:02,560
felt some intense heat there's even a

1045
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:04,240
case that i document in the book of a

1046
00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:05,599
veterinary

1047
00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:06,640
effect

1048
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:07,839
where

1049
00:39:11,430 --> 00:39:09,359
a woman

1050
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:11,440
was at her

1051
00:39:13,349 --> 00:39:12,480
corral

1052
00:39:15,030 --> 00:39:13,359
and

1053
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:15,040
just inside the barn

1054
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:18,240
and a ufo was seen in the sky it shot a

1055
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:19,280
beam

1056
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:24,000
like a pencil into the barn

1057
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:27,680
and uh her horses uh were so agitated

1058
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:28,400
that

1059
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,839
one actually

1060
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:31,440
has sort of

1061
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:34,720
knocked its uh hoof right through a wall

1062
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,640
uh and was injured and there seemed to

1063
00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:38,640
be some some something wrong with one of

1064
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:41,200
its uh on the side of its neck so there

1065
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:42,800
was a veterinary effect that was

1066
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,000
reported

1067
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:46,560
from a ufo as well so there are cases

1068
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:49,280
where there are physical effects seen by

1069
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:51,280
experienced by witnesses

1070
00:39:55,109 --> 00:39:52,800
but it's interesting to actually look at

1071
00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:55,119
some of the documentation where this is

1072
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:57,839
actually laid out in some detail

1073
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:01,200
right again yeah you know that's if it's

1074
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:04,000
down on paper it doesn't necessarily

1075
00:40:08,829 --> 00:40:06,480
make it true but it shows that it was

1076
00:40:12,069 --> 00:40:08,839
worth investigating and i think that's

1077
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:12,079
what what's most important um well you

1078
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,680
know we don't want to give away a lot of

1079
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:15,520
the good stories chris because obviously

1080
00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:17,040
i want people to read the book like i

1081
00:40:20,150 --> 00:40:18,319
did but um

1082
00:40:21,510 --> 00:40:20,160
the last thing i really want to touch on

1083
00:40:23,829 --> 00:40:21,520
with you in terms of some of the

1084
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:23,839
documents that you did uncover and put

1085
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:26,560
in the book were something we don't talk

1086
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:29,520
about that much anymore in the ufo world

1087
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:31,680
and that's crop circles you know this

1088
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:34,400
was a big thing back in the 80s the 90s

1089
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:36,560
especially over in europe and whatnot

1090
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:38,400
but we have them all over here in the

1091
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:41,119
midwest in the u.s and all over canada

1092
00:40:45,430 --> 00:40:43,119
as well and you actually

1093
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:45,440
came across some documents pertaining to

1094
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:48,160
crop circles in the book would you mind

1095
00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:50,880
sharing with us a little bit about that

1096
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:52,319
sure and as you mentioned you know this

1097
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:55,200
was 80s and 90s although um i i think i

1098
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:57,280
saw a post just the other day that uh

1099
00:41:00,630 --> 00:40:58,640
there's some formations that have been

1100
00:41:01,589 --> 00:41:00,640
found this year already in england oh

1101
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:01,599
interesting

1102
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:03,280
but we always associate you know the

1103
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:06,960
real crop circles with england right

1104
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:08,640
and yet

1105
00:41:13,349 --> 00:41:10,880
in the the documentation of some of the

1106
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:13,359
files that were declassified

1107
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:16,480
uh there was a case of a crop circle um

1108
00:41:22,710 --> 00:41:18,960
in place called duamel alberta

1109
00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:22,720
it's a good cattle and farming country

1110
00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:25,599
and a farmer came across

1111
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:27,119
some rings

1112
00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:28,560
in his field

1113
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:31,520
and so he notified the authorities

1114
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:33,040
actually it was a roundabout way he

1115
00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:34,720
actually uh

1116
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:36,560
somebody from the local school saw it

1117
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:39,359
and this guy happened to be a ufo fan so

1118
00:41:43,990 --> 00:41:42,000
he ended up notifying some authorities

1119
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:44,000
anyways the military went out and it was

1120
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:46,000
investigated by the royal canadian air

1121
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:46,960
force

1122
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:49,599
now that by itself may not seem all that

1123
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:51,599
interesting although well royal canadian

1124
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:53,599
air force investigating a crop circle

1125
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:55,200
that's rather unique

1126
00:42:03,430 --> 00:41:58,560
except that this occurred in 1967

1127
00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:03,440
uh long before anything was even uh uh

1128
00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:05,280
you know thought about in

1129
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:06,560
england

1130
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:08,160
and there's actually photographs of

1131
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,280
these uh these rings that were fairly

1132
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:13,680
large uh documented real canadian air

1133
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:16,000
force investigated in fact

1134
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:19,440
a report on the air force investigation

1135
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:21,119
is contained in these documents in the

1136
00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:22,160
files

1137
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,470
rings and markings in a field associated

1138
00:42:32,790 --> 00:42:30,720
with ufos even though the farmer never

1139
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:32,800
said that anybody had seen a ufo and

1140
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:34,240
nobody came forward to say they had seen

1141
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:37,280
a ufo it was associated with ufos

1142
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:38,880
according to the royal canadian air

1143
00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:40,000
force

1144
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:43,119
and uh they investigated they took soil

1145
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:45,119
samples they measured they you know did

1146
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:46,720
you know examined in

1147
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:49,200
in three ways from tuesday it was you

1148
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:51,359
know they did a fairly detailed analysis

1149
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:52,640
of this

1150
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:55,760
and they produced a report an actual

1151
00:43:00,550 --> 00:42:58,560
uh study and we we think of the uap

1152
00:43:02,069 --> 00:43:00,560
studies and all the the the position

1153
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:02,079
papers and whatever that were found down

1154
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:04,800
there i forgot how many 86 or something

1155
00:43:08,309 --> 00:43:07,280
well this is one from from canada about

1156
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:08,319
uh

1157
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:10,319
crop circles or rings found in a field

1158
00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:13,200
because of associated thought to be ufos

1159
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:15,520
from 1967

1160
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:18,560
a very interesting scientific report

1161
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:19,760
and

1162
00:43:23,670 --> 00:43:21,359
in addition

1163
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:23,680
there was one document that said that a

1164
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:26,400
ministerial inquiry was ordered

1165
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,359
to look into this particular case

1166
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:31,599
so the minister of national defense who

1167
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:34,800
at that time was actually paul hellyer

1168
00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:37,280
ordered an inquiry into the crop circle

1169
00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:40,400
that was found in canada in 1967.

1170
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,160
uh you never heard paul talk about this

1171
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:44,319
by the way um yeah in any of his recent

1172
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:46,400
stuff it's none of his books

1173
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:47,520
but

1174
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,440
and yet this was something that that he

1175
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:51,680
himself wanted to know more about and we

1176
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:53,200
have the documentation that something

1177
00:43:57,750 --> 00:43:55,520
occurred again imagine if

1178
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:57,760
the secretary of defense

1179
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:00,960
ordered an investigation into

1180
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:02,880
ufos or crop circles in the united

1181
00:44:05,589 --> 00:44:03,839
states

1182
00:44:07,349 --> 00:44:05,599
tremendously important

1183
00:44:11,430 --> 00:44:07,359
and yet

1184
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:11,440
uh you know

1185
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:14,640
maybe 50 to 75 miles

1186
00:44:19,829 --> 00:44:17,359
uh north of the american border

1187
00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:19,839
you know something uh quite interesting

1188
00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:22,800
was going on and so canada has had

1189
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:25,680
uh involvement in ufology all along you

1190
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:28,000
know in the united states had blue book

1191
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:29,920
actually had two projects project magnet

1192
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:31,760
and project second story

1193
00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:33,839
they also were looking into ufos and

1194
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:36,160
national defense and transport and to

1195
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:39,359
this day transport canada uh invites or

1196
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:42,079
asks or demands pilots report ufos to

1197
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:44,240
them and uh cases are continually being

1198
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:45,680
reported to them and also through

1199
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:47,200
national defense so

1200
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:49,200
you know in many ways canada might be i

1201
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:51,520
don't know ahead of the curve ahead of

1202
00:44:54,069 --> 00:44:52,319
what

1203
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:54,079
is going through maybe they should be

1204
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:56,079
taking the navy and the united states

1205
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:57,359
air force should be taking tips from

1206
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:59,440
what canada is doing rather than what

1207
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:01,119
seems to be going on

1208
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:03,280
that's such a good point i was gonna say

1209
00:45:07,510 --> 00:45:05,119
you know america thinks it's always at

1210
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:07,520
the forefront of everything and we

1211
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,079
influence other places but yeah i think

1212
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:12,400
you guys were ahead of us in terms of uh

1213
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:14,400
how important it is to actually report

1214
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:17,520
these things and to destigmatize the

1215
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:20,560
nature of reporting um maybe we would be

1216
00:45:25,190 --> 00:45:22,720
a lot further than we are now here in

1217
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:25,200
the us where i think our government has

1218
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:27,599
been backed into a corner and has to now

1219
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:30,079
admit things that they denied or lied

1220
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:32,560
about whereas canada seems to be like

1221
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:34,640
yeah just nobody ever asked but here

1222
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:36,880
there you go here you go right here

1223
00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:37,760
yeah

1224
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:40,880
no i i love that i love that idea um

1225
00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:41,760
well

1226
00:45:46,309 --> 00:45:43,680
i want to know chris in writing this

1227
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:46,319
book and coming across these cases and

1228
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,599
and doing the work you've done

1229
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:50,000
throughout all the years uh what

1230
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,560
surprised you most in researching for

1231
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:54,319
this book anything really stand out is

1232
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:56,800
being like huh you know i went in

1233
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:58,240
wanting to write about one thing and i

1234
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:00,960
came out on the other side um

1235
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:02,800
learning something myself which i think

1236
00:46:07,109 --> 00:46:05,280
any author should do when writing a book

1237
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:07,119
um what was that journey like for you

1238
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:09,280
and any big revelations by the end of

1239
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:11,040
all this

1240
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:12,720
well sure there

1241
00:46:17,589 --> 00:46:15,839
i have to say that this is kind of um

1242
00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:17,599
the first part i don't want to say the

1243
00:46:22,910 --> 00:46:20,640
first book in a series but this uh only

1244
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:22,920
goes up until about

1245
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:25,839
1971 or something like that or into the

1246
00:46:31,030 --> 00:46:28,480
early 1970s

1247
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:31,040
and not quite into the 80s

1248
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:32,720
there were many many more more files

1249
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:33,920
many of which have had not been

1250
00:46:37,910 --> 00:46:36,000
digitized but we've been able to find

1251
00:46:39,990 --> 00:46:37,920
many of them ourselves plus everything

1252
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:40,000
that's occurred since then

1253
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:41,599
so this is actually just a snapshot of

1254
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:43,440
what had been occurring

1255
00:46:47,670 --> 00:46:45,040
and whereas the united states uh

1256
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:47,680
viewpoint was that uh ufos and flying

1257
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:48,800
saucers

1258
00:46:53,349 --> 00:46:51,119
might have represented some sort of uh

1259
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:53,359
security threat uh some matter for

1260
00:46:57,190 --> 00:46:54,640
defense

1261
00:46:59,589 --> 00:46:57,200
because in canada the responsibility for

1262
00:47:01,990 --> 00:46:59,599
ufos was given to the national research

1263
00:47:05,109 --> 00:47:02,000
council a scientific body

1264
00:47:08,069 --> 00:47:05,119
uh that the view was looked at more of a

1265
00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:08,079
of a scientific issue more of a condom

1266
00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:10,800
issue if you want to use that analogy

1267
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:12,400
uh even though conan of course was

1268
00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:14,160
sponsored by the united states air force

1269
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:16,400
so there was this this dynamic going

1270
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:19,440
back and forth and some some tug of war

1271
00:47:23,829 --> 00:47:22,240
but in canada because of the scientific

1272
00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:23,839
viewpoint

1273
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:25,920
many of the scientists involved

1274
00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:27,119
did not

1275
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:28,240
really

1276
00:47:32,309 --> 00:47:30,480
get all that worked up about ufos they

1277
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:32,319
were sure that people were making stuff

1278
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:35,040
up or misindi misidentifying things in

1279
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:37,200
many cases they did turn out to be such

1280
00:47:42,549 --> 00:47:39,440
and one thing i do in my book is

1281
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:42,559
i do uh show that many cases where

1282
00:47:45,910 --> 00:47:43,760
explained

1283
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:45,920
and do have viable explanations but

1284
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:47,920
there were some that that didn't seem to

1285
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:50,160
have such easy explanations

1286
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:51,760
but because

1287
00:47:55,910 --> 00:47:53,680
the the government had this attitude

1288
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:55,920
that it was a scientific problem and

1289
00:47:59,670 --> 00:47:57,440
it's just a matter of people learning a

1290
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:59,680
little bit more about ufos and what's in

1291
00:48:03,510 --> 00:48:01,280
the sky and everything would be

1292
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:03,520
hunky-dory after that

1293
00:48:06,790 --> 00:48:05,520
um that

1294
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:06,800
um

1295
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:10,000
i i thought that perhaps they they

1296
00:48:13,829 --> 00:48:11,440
really weren't doing their job they

1297
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:13,839
really were uh not investigating as much

1298
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:15,040
as they could as a matter of fact

1299
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:17,280
recently there's been some discussion on

1300
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:19,599
ufo twitter places like that

1301
00:48:22,549 --> 00:48:21,040
that say the canadian government you

1302
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:22,559
know

1303
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:24,240
hasn't been doing anything at all with

1304
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:25,920
regard to ufos

1305
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:27,680
and they better get their act together

1306
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:28,880
because look what the united states is

1307
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:31,040
doing whereas

1308
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:33,040
the documentation shows the reverse that

1309
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:35,119
canadian government took ufos very

1310
00:48:39,270 --> 00:48:37,839
seriously on a number of levels uh the

1311
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:39,280
royal canadian mounted police and the

1312
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:41,440
hurricane air force and certain

1313
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:43,040
individuals within the national research

1314
00:48:48,309 --> 00:48:44,160
council

1315
00:48:50,549 --> 00:48:48,319
did in-depth studies of a lot of cases

1316
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:50,559
not just falcon lake but certainly uh a

1317
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:52,880
number of others and that amounted to

1318
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:54,720
dozens and dozens in some cases hundreds

1319
00:48:58,549 --> 00:48:56,800
of pages of documentation and

1320
00:49:00,790 --> 00:48:58,559
investigation

1321
00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:00,800
so i think the biggest problem was that

1322
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:03,119
the government departments themselves

1323
00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:05,359
uh were not connected i think the

1324
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:07,920
problem was communication whereas

1325
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:10,000
the ministry of transport wasn't talking

1326
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:12,000
to national defense national defense

1327
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:13,920
wasn't talking to the scientists they

1328
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,400
seemed to be very siloed and

1329
00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:18,319
and compartmentalized

1330
00:49:21,990 --> 00:49:20,079
and that was the the biggest problem

1331
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:22,000
that i saw and yet

1332
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:23,839
there were enough really good cases in

1333
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:24,640
there

1334
00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:26,160
uh that they should have been

1335
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:27,760
investigated i mean there were cases

1336
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:29,760
where objects landed

1337
00:49:34,710 --> 00:49:32,160
on roadways leaving behind

1338
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:34,720
marks in the asphalt and nobody seemed

1339
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:36,800
to investigate those there were

1340
00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:38,640
some close encounter cases where

1341
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:39,839
individuals

1342
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:42,000
seem to have seen entities and

1343
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:44,079
those weren't followed up on so i think

1344
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:46,079
the problem was follow-up but also

1345
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:47,040
because

1346
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:48,319
uh there didn't seem to be any

1347
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:49,680
consistent

1348
00:49:53,910 --> 00:49:52,480
um and organized investigative body and

1349
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:53,920
what i'm hoping

1350
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:55,440
and i think what most people are hoping

1351
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,480
from

1352
00:50:01,430 --> 00:49:58,640
the united states example is that there

1353
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:01,440
will be a consistent investigative body

1354
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:04,000
uh not just instrumented

1355
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:06,319
uh sightings to be considered like what

1356
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:08,640
we seem to be hearing now from

1357
00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:10,880
um project galileo and

1358
00:50:15,030 --> 00:50:13,680
uh and some of the other organizations

1359
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:15,040
that are going to be using all sky

1360
00:50:18,309 --> 00:50:16,640
cameras and whatnot

1361
00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:18,319
because there is a human element here

1362
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:20,079
that has to be taken into consideration

1363
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:23,040
i mean for the most part uh these are

1364
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:26,160
uh you know eyewitnesses and with

1365
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:28,400
associated physical effects and whereas

1366
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:29,359
we know

1367
00:50:33,670 --> 00:50:32,160
eyewitnesses are are not absolutely

1368
00:50:35,270 --> 00:50:33,680
reliable and there's many cases where

1369
00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:35,280
eyewitnesses have been terribly wrong

1370
00:50:38,870 --> 00:50:37,119
including pilots and

1371
00:50:42,309 --> 00:50:38,880
uh and other people with

1372
00:50:45,109 --> 00:50:42,319
pretty decent observing capabilities

1373
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:45,119
but eyewitness testimony is good enough

1374
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:48,480
to convict people in a court of law and

1375
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:50,880
human observers during the early days of

1376
00:50:55,510 --> 00:50:52,400
space flight

1377
00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:55,520
were invaluable in assessing uh what was

1378
00:51:01,030 --> 00:50:58,480
going on in space and uh the defense

1379
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:01,040
threat when sputnik went up uh there was

1380
00:51:04,630 --> 00:51:03,520
a lot of reliance on uh

1381
00:51:07,270 --> 00:51:04,640
civilian

1382
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:07,280
observations of sputnik for example uh

1383
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:09,680
and more recently um

1384
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:12,720
in aerospace and uh in

1385
00:51:16,549 --> 00:51:15,280
aircraft dynamics uh you know plane

1386
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:16,559
spotters

1387
00:51:20,549 --> 00:51:18,400
it's a real thing where people you know

1388
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,559
observe planes flying overhead and this

1389
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:22,400
is how some intelligence was acquired

1390
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:23,920
with regarding the development of the

1391
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:25,839
spell stealth bomber

1392
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:29,359
so um there is valuable uh information

1393
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:32,160
that can be gleaned from eyewitnesses uh

1394
00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:35,680
in addition to uh you know

1395
00:51:40,309 --> 00:51:38,559
sightings and and uh detections made

1396
00:51:41,910 --> 00:51:40,319
made with technology

1397
00:51:44,069 --> 00:51:41,920
and i think the marriage of the two is

1398
00:51:46,870 --> 00:51:44,079
what we're looking for hopefully united

1399
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:46,880
states and hopefully something will come

1400
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:49,520
of it in canada as well

1401
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:52,000
yeah i love that again you know mixing

1402
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:54,720
the witness testimony with the um the

1403
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:57,280
data i think is crucial we need both

1404
00:52:01,510 --> 00:51:58,880
sides of the coin if we're ever going to

1405
00:52:03,270 --> 00:52:01,520
truly figure out what's going on i mean

1406
00:52:06,069 --> 00:52:03,280
you look at the tic tac event and all we

1407
00:52:09,030 --> 00:52:06,079
had at first was the video neverland's

1408
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:09,040
like okay cool but what is it who saw it

1409
00:52:13,109 --> 00:52:11,119
like what's the story behind this and

1410
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:13,119
then we got the story and you can start

1411
00:52:16,950 --> 00:52:14,800
to paint that bigger picture of what

1412
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:16,960
actually happened how many were involved

1413
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:19,920
how many saw it and um i i think you're

1414
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:21,040
right i think there needs to be a

1415
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:22,720
cohesion and that's kind of what i think

1416
00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:24,800
this new program here in the united

1417
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:27,440
states is going to try to do too is um

1418
00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:29,119
you know stop

1419
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:31,280
doing this over here with the defense

1420
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:32,880
intelligence and the department of

1421
00:52:37,349 --> 00:52:34,480
energy and this and that and let's all

1422
00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:37,359
come together and say what we know about

1423
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:40,079
ufos and bring all that information

1424
00:52:46,390 --> 00:52:42,160
together and try to understand what

1425
00:52:48,549 --> 00:52:46,400
could be either a life-changing profound

1426
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:48,559
discovery or

1427
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:51,280
a huge huge huge threat so

1428
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:53,280
who knows who truly knows but yeah and

1429
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:55,200
look at the history of it too because

1430
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:56,480
yeah yeah

1431
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:57,760
you know what we've been hearing about

1432
00:52:59,430 --> 00:52:58,480
the

1433
00:53:01,349 --> 00:52:59,440
navy

1434
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:01,359
and just recently from the air force is

1435
00:53:05,829 --> 00:53:03,520
that they it's they're acting as if blue

1436
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:05,839
book didn't exist right which i think is

1437
00:53:08,630 --> 00:53:07,119
a big mistake because there's a lot of

1438
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:08,640
good data in there including some

1439
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:10,640
instrumentative reserve observations by

1440
00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:12,319
military personnel

1441
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:13,680
uh so i don't think they have to

1442
00:53:17,829 --> 00:53:15,359
reinvent the wheel in fact i was

1443
00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:17,839
concerned when the task force report

1444
00:53:20,870 --> 00:53:19,520
came out and they said there really

1445
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:20,880
wasn't a mechanism in place for

1446
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:22,960
reporting uap and how could that

1447
00:53:28,870 --> 00:53:25,280
possibly be because there there are so

1448
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:28,880
many uh reports on file um and you know

1449
00:53:32,069 --> 00:53:30,400
you just have to look at history so i'm

1450
00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:32,079
hoping that there will be some

1451
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:34,240
consideration of looking not only at the

1452
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:35,760
historical

1453
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:37,440
information for united states but also

1454
00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:39,280
from other countries like canada which

1455
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:41,920
has an amazing uh documented record of

1456
00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:43,200
investigation or research at the

1457
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:45,200
government level but also civilian

1458
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:47,040
research i mean the fact that my

1459
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:48,880
civilian research was

1460
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:51,440
uh was considered important enough to

1461
00:53:55,750 --> 00:53:53,760
uh you know to be given to a defense

1462
00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:55,760
minister to be included in a briefing on

1463
00:54:00,309 --> 00:53:57,040
the status of

1464
00:54:02,150 --> 00:54:00,319
uh of ufos in our country uh shows that

1465
00:54:05,430 --> 00:54:02,160
there is some consideration being given

1466
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:05,440
to uh the data collection itself and uh

1467
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:07,760
you know i'm hoping i can be part of the

1468
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:10,240
uh the the mechanism or system going

1469
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:13,040
forward uh in fact when a canadian

1470
00:54:17,030 --> 00:54:15,520
politician who's got some press recently

1471
00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:17,040
larry maguire

1472
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:18,800
came public he came out of the closet

1473
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:21,200
with regarding to ufos

1474
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:23,119
with a statement and he asked a question

1475
00:54:27,589 --> 00:54:25,839
in a parliamentary committee about uap

1476
00:54:30,069 --> 00:54:27,599
uh especially those around nuclear

1477
00:54:32,710 --> 00:54:30,079
facilities in canada um

1478
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:32,720
uh it's noted that he uh you know

1479
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:34,720
reached out and was given information

1480
00:54:40,230 --> 00:54:37,520
and was briefed by louis elizondo and

1481
00:54:41,910 --> 00:54:40,240
hal putoff and uh i think robert powell

1482
00:54:42,789 --> 00:54:41,920
from scu

1483
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:42,799
but

1484
00:54:46,230 --> 00:54:44,240
one of the first people he reached out

1485
00:54:47,670 --> 00:54:46,240
to was me and i briefed him for uh quite

1486
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:47,680
some time as well

1487
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:50,400
uh so you know there are a number of

1488
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:52,400
sources um

1489
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:55,119
in the united states where uh

1490
00:54:59,270 --> 00:54:57,200
ufo information is kept but the canadian

1491
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:59,280
connection is very solid

1492
00:55:03,270 --> 00:55:01,440
and uh you know the politicians on both

1493
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:03,280
sides of the the border

1494
00:55:08,950 --> 00:55:06,640
have a lot of resources to reach out to

1495
00:55:11,190 --> 00:55:08,960
yeah absolutely um and you know what

1496
00:55:12,870 --> 00:55:11,200
that gives me hope for the future it

1497
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:12,880
really does when it comes to this topic

1498
00:55:18,309 --> 00:55:15,040
um so i guess two last questions for you

1499
00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:18,319
chris um the obvious one being where can

1500
00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:20,160
we find the book and all of your work

1501
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:22,240
but i think the more um

1502
00:55:27,190 --> 00:55:25,200
important question for ufology overall

1503
00:55:29,589 --> 00:55:27,200
as someone who's been in this field for

1504
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:29,599
a long time like yourself um you know

1505
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:31,520
and myself included i'm no longer

1506
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:33,040
considered one of the younger people in

1507
00:55:37,750 --> 00:55:35,599
this field which is depressing in some

1508
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:37,760
ways but also very exciting we have a

1509
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:40,160
lot of younger people getting involved

1510
00:55:45,190 --> 00:55:41,839
getting interested like you mentioned

1511
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:45,200
ufo twitter is a thing which

1512
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:48,400
is so weird and um and just i never

1513
00:55:52,390 --> 00:55:50,079
thought we would get to this point in

1514
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:52,400
this conversation but we are and there

1515
00:55:56,230 --> 00:55:53,760
are younger people who are really

1516
00:55:57,990 --> 00:55:56,240
excited about this topic so um yeah

1517
00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:58,000
where can we get the book and let us

1518
00:56:02,630 --> 00:56:00,079
know what you think we should be looking

1519
00:56:04,390 --> 00:56:02,640
forward to in the years coming up with

1520
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:04,400
ufology and what advice would you give

1521
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:06,400
people first getting involved with this

1522
00:56:11,589 --> 00:56:08,799
topic um what can they learn from our

1523
00:56:13,829 --> 00:56:11,599
mistakes and and some of our successes i

1524
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:13,839
guess

1525
00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:16,000
well sure and i'll answer that part

1526
00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:18,160
first i think people who are relatively

1527
00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:21,760
new to the field um really should take a

1528
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:23,920
hard cold look at what's been already

1529
00:56:26,150 --> 00:56:24,880
done

1530
00:56:28,150 --> 00:56:26,160
um

1531
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:28,160
you know there's a lot of people who

1532
00:56:32,710 --> 00:56:30,480
knew the field who had never read a

1533
00:56:34,069 --> 00:56:32,720
report on unidentified flying objects by

1534
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:34,079
edward ruppelt

1535
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:36,799
one of the classic and seminal works uh

1536
00:56:41,750 --> 00:56:39,599
reed heineck reed keel you know they

1537
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:41,760
read jenny randles there's some

1538
00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:44,640
some really good books um out there i

1539
00:56:50,069 --> 00:56:47,520
mean i the this book that uh that we

1540
00:56:52,549 --> 00:56:50,079
have right now from mine canada's ufo

1541
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:52,559
declassified is my tenth book

1542
00:56:56,309 --> 00:56:54,720
um and uh

1543
00:56:58,789 --> 00:56:56,319
uh you know there's so much information

1544
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:58,799
to cover a lot of uh

1545
00:57:02,069 --> 00:57:00,319
people have been active in the field for

1546
00:57:03,990 --> 00:57:02,079
many many years

1547
00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:04,000
and there's a sort of a i think a

1548
00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:06,480
reluctance to look upon

1549
00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:08,480
the older stuff as being any at all

1550
00:57:12,549 --> 00:57:10,640
relevant but i think that people are new

1551
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:12,559
to the field are really missing out on

1552
00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:13,839
some of the stuff that's been done i

1553
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:15,040
mean

1554
00:57:19,109 --> 00:57:16,960
one of the things that struck me in

1555
00:57:19,829 --> 00:57:19,119
canada was how much has already been

1556
00:57:22,390 --> 00:57:19,839
done

1557
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:22,400
uh in the fact that you know canada had

1558
00:57:26,789 --> 00:57:24,480
crop circles in 67

1559
00:57:28,470 --> 00:57:26,799
we have trace cases we had radioactive

1560
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:28,480
material being tested in laboratories

1561
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:29,440
there's this big thing about

1562
00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:32,240
metamaterials being found from crashed

1563
00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:33,359
ufos

1564
00:57:37,510 --> 00:57:35,520
that are you know the the size of a dime

1565
00:57:39,990 --> 00:57:37,520
or something well the stuff from falcon

1566
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:40,000
lake uh one of the pieces of metal is

1567
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:41,760
about five inches long

1568
00:57:45,109 --> 00:57:43,359
um and you know

1569
00:57:46,789 --> 00:57:45,119
much larger than uh

1570
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:46,799
some of the others in fact in my book i

1571
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:50,400
describe a case uh where um

1572
00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:52,480
there's an object that was thought to be

1573
00:58:01,349 --> 00:57:59,990
size of a large uh uh

1574
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:01,359
refrigerator

1575
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:04,000
uh and tested by laboratories so a lot

1576
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:06,000
of the the stuff that's really hot right

1577
00:58:10,950 --> 00:58:08,160
now has precedence and has been looked

1578
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:10,960
at in a number of ways so i would say

1579
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:12,400
we'll look at some of the historical

1580
00:58:16,390 --> 00:58:14,480
stuff and uh don't ignore it in fact

1581
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:16,400
there's a resurgence of interest in some

1582
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:19,200
of you know some old cases that have had

1583
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:21,119
explanations that people are now

1584
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,200
reassessing in some cases that's

1585
00:58:27,829 --> 00:58:25,280
worthwhile in some cases it's not worth

1586
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:27,839
bothering about because they're hoaxes

1587
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:30,240
and have some explanations so

1588
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:31,920
rely on some of the people who have been

1589
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:34,400
around a while but in terms of my

1590
00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:36,240
material

1591
00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:38,799
certainly can go to amazon i think at

1592
00:58:43,349 --> 00:58:41,200
least a half dozen or or more of my

1593
00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:43,359
books are on amazon so you can find me

1594
00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:44,640
there

1595
00:58:48,150 --> 00:58:46,079
i'm also on

1596
00:58:50,390 --> 00:58:48,160
social media

1597
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:50,400
facebook i'm on instagram

1598
00:58:54,630 --> 00:58:52,240
uh on twitter

1599
00:58:57,030 --> 00:58:54,640
um and i have some youtube channel

1600
00:58:58,870 --> 00:58:57,040
youtube channels as well

1601
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:58,880
um so there's a lot of ways to get in

1602
00:59:01,430 --> 00:59:00,319
touch with me i have a

1603
00:59:03,710 --> 00:59:01,440
a blog

1604
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:03,720
which is very simple

1605
00:59:08,549 --> 00:59:06,319
forum.blogspot.com is where i uh

1606
00:59:10,870 --> 00:59:08,559
actually publish a lot of documents that

1607
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:10,880
nobody's seen before about ufos and

1608
00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:12,720
comment on what's going on

1609
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:13,520
so

1610
00:59:17,109 --> 00:59:15,760
uh you know there are people around

1611
00:59:19,270 --> 00:59:17,119
and

1612
00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:19,280
in terms of facebook i'm one of the

1613
00:59:25,190 --> 00:59:22,480
moderators of uh ufo updates uh the

1614
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:25,200
classic uh discussion forum for ufos

1615
00:59:29,030 --> 00:59:28,160
that started in the 1990s by earl bruce

1616
00:59:32,230 --> 00:59:29,040
knapp

1617
00:59:33,990 --> 00:59:32,240
and i was asked to uh to be

1618
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:34,000
one of the moderators of the new version

1619
00:59:38,150 --> 00:59:36,640
on facebook uh very honored by that

1620
00:59:39,990 --> 00:59:38,160
we're trying to keep up as much as we

1621
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:40,000
can i realize there's a lot of facebook

1622
00:59:44,230 --> 00:59:41,359
groups out there

1623
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:44,240
um but we try to you know to just talk

1624
00:59:49,349 --> 00:59:46,559
about some of the more interesting cases

1625
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:49,359
uh in a form that's uh relatively easily

1626
00:59:53,030 --> 00:59:50,799
accessible

1627
00:59:55,270 --> 00:59:53,040
yeah probably one of my favorite groups

1628
00:59:57,670 --> 00:59:55,280
they're not afraid to tell you you know

1629
00:59:59,829 --> 00:59:57,680
if you're wrong or um where we should be

1630
01:00:01,670 --> 00:59:59,839
looking and we need that we definitely

1631
01:00:03,670 --> 01:00:01,680
need that in this field not as bad as

1632
01:00:05,349 --> 01:00:03,680
ufo watchdog but we're close

1633
01:00:07,589 --> 01:00:05,359
that's very true i don't know if

1634
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:07,599
anything will ever reach that level but

1635
01:00:13,109 --> 01:00:09,520
hey we got to keep ourselves humble

1636
01:00:14,710 --> 01:00:13,119
somehow um well chris i think again you

1637
01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:14,720
know not just the book but the work you

1638
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:17,200
do is invaluable to this conversation

1639
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:19,200
and i don't know where we would be

1640
01:00:24,150 --> 01:00:21,280
without the work you've done there in

1641
01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:24,160
canada my northern neighbor and um and

1642
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:26,480
where it's all heading so um i want to

1643
01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:28,240
congratulate you on the book i hope

1644
01:00:33,349 --> 01:00:30,880
everyone will check it out and i want to

1645
01:00:35,190 --> 01:00:33,359
thank you for the very first time for

1646
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:35,200
coming on somewhere in the skies it's

1647
01:00:38,580 --> 01:00:37,040
truly been an honor

1648
01:01:17,830 --> 01:00:38,590
thank you

1649
01:01:19,510 --> 01:01:17,840
[Music]